Episode #1: Our History, Martial Arts Myths & Bully Prevention Tips

Welcome to the very first episode of Bully Proof Your Child! In this episode, Sam and Gary sit down to talk about why they started this podcast, their personal connections to bully prevention, and the long history of Atrium Society’s work in this field.

From martial arts stories to childhood experiences, this conversation sets the stage for what this podcast is all about — real stories, practical ideas, and exploring bullying from every angle.

If you’d rather read than listen, the full transcript is below.

Podcast Transcript

Hi, I’m Sam. I am here with Gary. This is our very first episode of the Bully Proof Podcast. We’re very excited to be here. We’re excited to talk about bullying, which is a huge issue, obviously, around the world for kids and families, and we’re just very excited to start and have a conversation with you about this.

So, in each episode, we’re hoping to explore bullying from prevention to intervention, and we’re going to give you tools and stories that can help make a difference.

My name is Sam. I have been with the Atrium Society since 2014. You’ll often find me in the back end of things, connecting with our students and communities through the newsletter, social media, and blogs. I love connecting that way. If you’re talking to us online, it’ll probably be me. And I want to pass over to Gary now.

Hi, I’m Gary. I’ve been affiliated with the Atrium Society for, oh, I don’t know, over 20 years now. I discovered Terrence Webster-Doyle by reading Black Belt Magazine. He used to have a monthly article on bullying, and as a martial arts teacher, I was very interested in his concepts of how you can use strength to affect peace. So Terrence and I began a dialogue 20-some-odd years ago, and I’ve looked at all of his programs. He’s written dozens of books on this subject, fostered many curricula. And we will cover every angle of bullying that I can think of. As a teacher in martial arts, I’ve had several hundred students come through my school, and my main goal with each and every one of them is to help them become better citizens and to help them not be afraid to deal with other people. And bullying, like Terrence said, bullying is perhaps the most profound problem that children face today.

The Atrium Society has been around for over 40 years, which is really, really incredible. I know you’ve been part of it for 20 years, I’ve been for only ten. Jean and Terrence have been doing this for so long. Unfortunately, Terrence passed away a few years ago, which is, it’s hard to, hard to do this without him, but Jean has been an amazing guide during that time. They’ve been dedicated to bully prevention and peace education for those 40 years. It’s really incredible. Like I said, it started with Jean and Terrence back in 1984, which is so amazing. What year did you meet?

I think 2003.

It’s amazing hearing all their different stories, Jean’s always sharing about it. There’s always something new. I’m hoping she’ll come on the podcast sometime and share some of those stories because she’s great to hear from.

Yeah. No. In fact, Jean and Terrence moved to Maine, where I live, and they worked with me. I was a retiring executive for the Tom’s of Maine company, and my hobby had been teaching violent youth how to get martial arts so that they can calm their fight-or-flight instinct. Terrence got me started on that. When I retired, he and Jean moved up for about a year, and they worked with me in my facility. So it was good, I got some first-hand instruction. I got to look at the dynamic of the two of them, and it’s really something to behold.

It is. And it’s, I mean, it’s amazing how they do that! They’ve taught so many teachers and educators around the world. I know they’ve come up to Canada and done that a few times. They work so one-on-one with people. Right now, Jean’s working one-on-one with a few people around the world in Nigeria and Nepal. So incredible. Obviously, not in person, but she’s really transitioned to online education.

Yeah. And I mean, Terrence just brings this wealth of experience. I mean, he’s a sixth-degree blackbelt. That’s a big deal. He’s also a PhD in human health services, and he’s got a master’s in psychology, so he knows what he’s talking about.

Yeah. So all the curricula are really bringing that all together.

Yes. And I mean, his premise was that you had to address the fight-or-flight instinct directly, and the only way to get a child to listen long enough without panicking is to give them a deep inner sense that they can take care of themselves if they needed to physically.

Absolutely. And I mean, you can see that in so much of the curriculum. It really goes into the root of what the issue is, whether that’s bullying or conditioning, it goes into that root, so you can understand and have actionable and effective tools to deal with it.

Yes. I know. I remember when I was a child, I was bullied. In fact, it was a victim who bullied me. He was in a car fire, and he had bad burns all over his face and his neck, and he knew that that frightened other children, so he used that as power. So he had come running after you, screaming like a monster, and at nine years old, or eight years, or whatever, it scared the heart out of me.

Yeah. Absolutely. That’s so much of what the cycle is, is someone who has been victimized by, whether it’s another person or a situation like that, they bring that and become — can, not always — but they can become a bully because of that to try to help themselves feel better. Fill a void.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s true. And my dad was a World War II vet. Well, he wasn’t having any of this nonsense. So he immediately sent me to the YMCA to learn how to box because, back then, he felt, well, if he’s going to do that to you, then you’ve got to be able to protect yourself. And the funny thing I found — I boxed for years — and the funny thing I found is that most of the boxers never fought with other people. They didn’t fight with other people because they had defused that fight-or-flight instinct. They were able to hang around long enough in a conversation to make the bully understand that they weren’t afraid of him and to try to use reason. So Terrence was right. This happens naturally if you’ve defused your fight-or-flight enough to think.

I mean, myself, I didn’t have physical bullying experiences. I guess you could say, I was more made fun of for being one of the smarter people in class. I was often made fun of for that. I found that without knowing it, I was using the “agree with the bully”, which is in one of our curricula. I just did that. It seemed to just make it stop because they weren’t getting any fuel to the fire, I guess, that they were looking forward.

Right. They weren’t getting the satisfaction.

Exactly. Yeah. So then it just stopped. So, without knowing it, it’s really interesting to see now, in these curricula that Terrence and Jean have created, how really effective that is.

Yeah. And I mean, another one is to simply walk away. But that’s easier to do when you feel confident.

It is. That confidence is really important, which you can get through the martial arts, like you have. You have taught so many students that way, which is another thing that Atium Society talks about quite a lot, using martial arts so that children can gain that confidence. It’s not about just fighting everybody.

No, and that’s such a misunderstood concept. Martial arts were developed for peace and peaceful interaction. They were the guardrails that you used to stay within that peaceful interaction. You don’t have to teach your child to be a ninja. You really don’t need a lethal weapon living in your home, but what you need is a confident little person who has enough courage to come and tell you when things are wrong as a parent, but also to use some of the tools that we teach.

Which I mean, we have lots of resources that Terrence has written. I would probably guess over 100 curricula and books between all of them. So there’s lots and lots of options. In this podcast, we’ll point out ones that will be helpful in certain situations, so you kind of know which ones to use in whatever situation you’re looking at, because some of them are more directed to things like if you’re a bystander. That’s an important part of bullying prevention — having bystanders actually involved and not just scared of what to do. Or if you’re being picked on, what to do for that. If you’re the bully, or if you have a child who’s a bully, and you want to help them, there are all kinds of resources that we’re really excited to be talking about and giving you access to.

One of the programs that I really liked from his earlier years was called ARM, and that may sound aggressive or violent, but it’s not. It was a simple concept for dealing with the bully. First, you “avoid”. So in other words, you see him coming down the street, and you know he’s going to bully you, cross the street. “Resolve” is the second strategy. So, to resolve, you start using some of the skills that we teach. How to talk to him, how to walk away, how to look them in the eye, how to not show fear. And then finally is “manage”. If it gets physical, you have the tools to manage. And, since you have the confidence that you know you have the tools to manage it, you never get to manage. You’re usually right on resolve, and you stick there.

It’s funny how that happens. Which it’s like you said earlier, it’s such an unexpected thing or an misunderstood part of the physicality of it.

Oh yes, counterintuitive. It’s counterintuitive. I’m teaching my child how to fight, so he’s going to fight. No, teaching my child to fight so we won’t have to.

It’s teaching them confidence in themselves and their abilities.

Exactly. Both of my children, both of my boys, third degree black belts in Taekwondo, they don’t fight. They didn’t have to fight. They got their black belts before they went into, one was in middle school, one was almost at the edge of high school.

That’s pretty young to get it.

Yes. And in the style that I studied, it’s five or six years for your first degree, five or six years for your second. I mean, my youngest started at age four. Both of them were pretty well advanced black belts and neither one of them fight because they both know that they don’t have to. They can talk about it before they resort to anger.

This is part of the reason we started this podcast. I mean, there’s so much misinformation about martial arts, but also bully prevention. There are a lot of ineffective strategies, so we’re really excited to be talking about, even just the basics, of bullying and help you understand what it is, what can be done with it. And then we want to go into the bully prevention techniques, whether you’re a parent or a teacher, or if you’re being bullied, this will be able to help you. We’ll talk about the immediate and long-term effects of bullying and why this really matters, because it is not just a childhood issue. This affects so much more. It affects you long into adulthood, and, quite honestly, it affects global conflicts. So it’s really, really important that we all learn about this and have these effective strategies that actually work and mitigate bullying and prevent it.

And we also want to share some stories, so we want to hear from you. We want to make this a community conversation. We want to talk with you as best as we can, so we would love to hear from you, too. If you have any questions or things you would like us to cover, please send those to podcast@atriumsoc.org.

We’re also on social media, too, at the Atrium Society on Facebook and Instagram. We’re still pretty new on there, but we would love if you gave us the follow and then join our newsletter too at atriumsoc.org/join-newsletter.

We’re very excited to hear from you and to keep this conversation going!

If you find this podcast helpful and you want to learn more about bullying, subscribe to our podcast. We would enjoy all of your communications and letters, and we will try to read them on the podcast with some answers.

Absolutely, I’m very looking forward to that. And if you’re liking it, please leave us a review. We are brand new, and that really helps us get found by other people who are interested in bullying prevention.

So until then, please take care.